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September 5th, 2007 by Babs

A friend of Miss “Wicca is whatever I want it to be” is demanding I cite my proof that Wicca requires both a God and Goddess. While the thought of ignoring them has occurred to me, my evil side truly wishes to shut them up. :)

I’ve got some books and sites at my fingertips, unfortunately a good plently of what I learned came from my teacher, friends, flist members, comms and library books, all of which are kind of hard to cite, especially since I refuse to drop names (the fact that my memory is teh suck doesn’t help much, either *laughs*). I hate to ask for help with my homework, but can anyone suggest some serious (preferably online, not-so-traditional) sources I can take a look at?

Thank you all so much in advance!!!!!

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7 Responses  
  • dbmyrrha writes:
    September 6th, 20071:26 amat

    Well, unfortunately, I’m not sure you can “win” this one, becuase in order to do so, you must dissuade your little friend of the notion that “Wicca is whatever you want it to be.”

    Accepting that Wicca has a certain specifications means accepting a certain definition of Wicca, and that is a bit hard to pin down, especially among the “not too traditional” crowd. Usually it comes down to “Call it what you like, dear, but don’t expect to find agreement among any but the most liberal Neo-Wiccans. Oh, and Dianics, who may call themselves Wiccan, but aren’t.”

    I’ve found most of these what is and what isn’t Wicca arguments to be entirely pointless and unsolvable. in thew end, it all goes back to Gardner. Whether you think he inherited it, developed it, or created it, he is the modern Grandfather of Wicca. As far as I’m concerned, what he says, goes.

    • Babs writes:
      September 6th, 20071:36 pmat

      Honestly, I know I’m not going to win. This is the number one reason why I’ve been considering keeping my mouth shut from here on out. In fact, if it were a private conversation, I would definitely drop it.

      On the flip side, I was taught so that I may, in turn, teach. These guys are spewing rubbish on a public forum and I kind of feel it’s my duty to show the n00bs that are there to learn where the logic is flawed, especially since I opened the can of worms. :)

      • dbmyrrha writes:
        September 6th, 20079:12 pmat

        I hear you, but remember the fine old saying:

        “Never try to teach a pig to sing;
        It wastes your time and annoys the pig. “

        :) After years of frustrating pig-training, I now only teach people who actually want to learn.

        Be blessed!

  • frauholla writes:
    September 6th, 20073:24 amat

    Gerald Gardner

    You can find the texts of Gardner’s works on line. Here are a couple of quotes from the man who brought Wicca to the attention of the World.

    Gerald Gardner, the aforementioned founder of Wicca, Wrote:

    “Now G. (the Goddess) had never loved, but she would solve all mysteries, even the mystery of Death, and so she journeyed to the nether lands. The guardians of the portals challenged her. “Strip off thy garments, lay aside thy jewels, for nought may ye bring with you into this our land.” So she laid down her garments and her jewels and was bound as are all who enter the realms of Death, the mighty one. [Original footnote: See Note 2(page 159). This concerns the practice of binding after death.]

    Such was her beauty that Death himself knelt and kissed her feet, saying: “Blessed be thy feet that have brought thee in these ways. Abide with me, but let me place my cold hand on thy heart.” And she replied: “I love thee not. Why doest thou cause all things that I love and take delight in to fade and die?” “Lady,” replied Death, “’tis age and fate, against which I am helpless. Age causes all things to wither; but when men die at the end of time, I give them rest and peace and strength so that may return. But you, you are lovely. Return not; abide with me.” But she answered: “I love thee not.” Then said Death: “As you receive not my hand on your heart, you must receive Death’s scourge.” “It is fate, better so,” she said, and she knelt. Death scourged her and she cried: “I know the pangs of love.” And Death said: “Blessed be,” and gave her the fivefold kiss, saying: “Thus only may you attain to joy and knowledge.”

    And he taught her all the mysteries, and they loved and were one; and he taught her all the magics. For there are three great events in the life of man — love, death and resurrection in the new body — and magic controls them all. To fulfil love you must return again at the same time and place as the loved ones, and you must remember and love her or him again. But to be reborn you must die and be made ready for a new body; to die you must be born; without love you may not be born, and this is all the magic.”

    Gardner Wrote:
    “Authentic witchcraft is certainly not black magic, because witches do not even believe in the devil, let alone invoke him. The Old Horned God of the witches is not the Satan of Christianity, and no amount of theological argument will make him so. He is, in fact, the oldest deity known to man, and is depicted in the oldest representation of a divinity which has yet been found, namely the Stone Age painting in the innermost recess of the Caverne des Trois Freres at Ariege. He is the old phallic god of fertility who has come forth from the morning of the world, and who was already of immeasurable antiquity before Egypt and Babylon, let alone before the Christian era. Nor did he perish at the cry that Great Pan was dead.

    Secretly through the centuries, hidden deeper and deeper as time went on, his worship and that of the naked Moon Goddess, his bride, the Lady of Mystery and Magic and the forbidden joys, continued sometimes among the great ones of the land, sometimes in humble cottages, or on lonely heaths and in the depths of darkling woods, on summer nights when the moon rode high. It does so still.”

    Gardner Wrote:
    “Hence the Lord of the Gates of Death is also the phallic deity of fertility, the Opener of the Door of LIfe.

    This is why the witches’ god was incorporated into the Roman pantheon as Janus, the two-faced god who was Guardian of the Gates. He and his consort Diana are two of the oldest deities of Western Europe, and Diana is named in the Canon Episcopi of the early tenth century as being the goddess of the witches.”

    There are a bunch more quotes from his books that support the concept of a specific “Lord” and “Lady”.

    Good luck.

    • Babs writes:
      September 6th, 20072:05 pmat

      Re: Gerald Gardner

      Thanks for the quotes! I really appreciate them, even though I know they won’t. By their standards I’m already a FMPPH. *laughs*

      Anyway, I’ve casually flipped through some of the books I have and glanced over a couple of websites I’ve visited in the past. While doing do I was not so gently reminded that practically every 101 book and web site I’ve read in the past has had a section labeled “The God and Goddess of Wicca”, or something to that effect. How could someone not get a clue?

      • tn_lark writes:
        September 6th, 20073:03 pmat

        Re: Gerald Gardner

        And of course little Miss would probably wig out were she to be told that of course there has to be a God AND a Goddess since Wicca is a FERTILITY religion.

        • Babs writes:
          September 6th, 20076:44 pmat

          Re: Gerald Gardner

          Oh don’t get me started! LOL!

          The two of them are of the mind that Gays and Lesbians need their own forms of Wicca, due to the concept of a traditional God and Goddess being offensive to them. Nevermind that there have been Gays, Lesbians, Transexuals, Transgenders, and Crossdressers contently practicing traditional forms of Wicca probably since its creation.


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